Curse

Hintshigen Elgin · May 25, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Again, any guild that has been unable to win the Hall of Heroes at least once in the last month is unlikely to make any significant impact on the GvG ladder.

The only significant effect that adding all those guilds to GvG would add to the top of the ladder is the ripple in points that comes from adding a bunch of 1000-rating teams for the minimally competent to feast upon.

This is flawed reasoning at best. Sure they might be bad to begin with and won't significantly 'impact' the ladder, however with practice and constant refinement they will eventually become better.

You can't say this for HoH however because first you have to get there, and for a fledgling guild trying to constantly change tactics mid-stream to accomodate a 2v1 gang up or a guild that PvP's in it's sleep isn't so easy and can become very disheartning.

You have to at least give them a chance to improve their GvG skills before you outright dismiss them.

Ensign · May 25, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

Who are you to dictate what I do or do not deserve in a piece of entertainment that I have purchased?

So you're saying that you want to remove rewards and treasure from the game, and that people should just recieve handouts? Should people just say 'oh, I have a guild, we should have a guild hall' and one should spring into existance - or should they have to actually, you know, spend time and effort to purchase one?

I'm saying that 100k is a wholly trivial amount of money for a guild to come up with for something as (seemingly) important as a guild hall. As far as I'm concerned, most of these guilds just want to use their hall as a status symbol - so why shouldn't they pay for it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

And this is a problem for you how?

It isn't, I'm simply refuting the argument that somehow the ladder is lacking integrity because of the scarcity of guild halls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

The problem here is you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of fun or entertainment, at least the kind which doesn't involve hyper-competitiveness.

I most certainly do understand mindless fun, and I partake in it at times. What I don't understand is people trying to pass off mindless fun as something difficult of competitive or whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

You seem to think that someone who isn't the best has no place playing the game.

Not even close. I'm simply suggesting that guilds whining about their inability to afford a guild hall is more pathetic than sympathetic. Go and bitch about the price of 15k armor while you're at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hintshigen Elgin

This is flawed reasoning at best. Sure they might be bad to begin with and won't significantly 'impact' the ladder, however with practice and constant refinement they will eventually become better.

Go and practice in tombs. They'll eke out a sigil long before they'd be relevant on the ladder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hintshigen Elgin

You can't say this for HoH however because first you have to get there, and for a fledgling guild trying to constantly change tactics mid-stream to accomodate a 2v1 gang up or a guild that PvP's in it's sleep isn't so easy and can become very disheartning.

When you first get to the hall, you're one of the two in the 2v1. It's a noticible advantage.

Losing to those teams holding the hall is how you get better at PvP. Look at their strategies, analyze them, find holes, and exploit them. Several players are already doing this and you can see the results when you play against them - I've seen all sorts of hate directed as us when we're holding the hall now, and it's making everyone better in the process.

The teams you see holding the hall of heroes are the same teams you're going to face in GvG, except they're going to be playing tighter, with their best players and more focused builds. Losing to them isn't supposed to be disheartening, but educational. But that's all in how you look at things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hintshigen Elgin

You have to at least give them a chance to improve their GvG skills before you outright dismiss them.

Sure, I want to give teams every chance to show their PvP skill. Which is how the current system heavily works - before you end up on the *ranked* ladder, you need to improve yourself enough to be successful in the PvP tournament. Seems like a great system to me. The only catch is that access to the ladder goes through a guild hall which everyone wants as a vanity object...

Peace,
-CxE

Brett Kuntz · May 25, 2005, 06:48 AM // 06:48

The fact that Anet is even thinking about "fixing" this cracks me up. Guild Halls should be earned, either from winning in tombs as a team or earning 100k gold as a team. Hopefully they make it so 1 skill point can buy 3 skills, it's only fair.

Zeppelin · May 25, 2005, 06:53 AM // 06:53

To me it seems that many PvPers are being quite hypocritical. Spooky said it best, but I'll rehash it. PvPers cannot stand to have to play through the RP part of the game to get all their skills/runes/upgrades. We've heard the argument hundreds of times. But, when RPers complain about the difficulty of PvP Tombs/HoH/getting 100k, all of the sudden we deserve it, and we are considered lazy and not worthwhile if we cannot overcome the challenge. PvPers hold this over our head, almost to the effect of, "We have to do something we don't want to do, so you RPers will have to do something you don't want to do(HoH or collect 100k), it's only fair." Alright, that's fine. I don't want to hear anymore bitching about having to grind to get something you want. Evidently, grind is now ok. You guys should take your own advice then and consider all of the skills/upgrades as rewards which need to be worked for.

You guys can try and justify it any way you want. Sure, many guilds would suck if sigils were easily acquired, and it may not add much to the top of the guild ladder, but it is GUILD WARS, and many guilds would like to have this option available.

I honestly don't even care that much. I have my own guild with about 20 members. I've wanted to get a guild hall for the last couple weeks, but not bad enough to where I'm going to intentionally save up money only for that, especially to pay such a high price. The prices have been jumping so much lately, by the time you save up enough for the sigil the price has doubled. Plus, having several characters, and helping others in the guild quickly taps your funds for armor and runes.

I've been playing since release and I've logged about 200 hours between 2 characters around Droknar's and 2 lower level characters. I've played alot of PvP, mostly in arenas, and done well. I've only done tombs a couple times, in PUG's, which weren't that great. I would like to have a guild hall, but I guess I'm just not motivated enough, or maybe, I just don't deserve it.

Either way, advising us to start grinding to get what we want, is justifying the system most of you hate so much.

Brett Kuntz · May 25, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Oh my god you'll have to grind for one hour to buy a sigil, ya thats so much like the one hour it takes a PvE char to get through all the missions/locations, gain all the skills, and get some runes. Wait, that last part takes longer then an hour, 199 hours longer, crap forgot.

Zeppelin · May 25, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Show me any one person that can grind for an hour and get 100k and your post would make at least a tiny bit of sense. Otherwise, and even if, you're still advocating the same system that you're so obviously in love with.

Gaile Gray · May 25, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spooky

So to have these kind of systems in place.. especially being self perpetuated.. is just hypocritical.

"hypocritical?" Could you explain how that word applies? I'm scratching my head here, being a word person and not seeing its application at all to the preceding commentary.

Also, you most likely have a familiarity with the lore of the game. If you do, then you know that "Guild Wars" doesn't really refer to Guild versus Guild battles.

Anariel · May 25, 2005, 07:33 AM // 07:33

I have xxxk right now in gold and I refuse to buy a sigil. I earned my own way through ascension, through missions, through rune farming and grinding and experimenting with pvp builds. I want to earn the sigil as well. The only problem is that I don't have a guild capable of doing so at this particular moment because our friends are more casual players that work full time.

Personally though I am not very fond of the current format of the HoH. The purpose of the priest and hero are to add to strategy but their AI suck so tremendously that they barely factor into the gameplay at all. The low, monotonous voice of the hero and the long, boring, rez-heal-fest fights generally lead to a PvP experience that I find less pleasant than even the random arena.

I really wish the PvP system would be more energized and more of a free for all like the gladiator arena is, rather than the sort of boring and predictable test of endurance that it is at the moment. The guild ladder and so on is nice, but no one really even cares at the moment. People are judging PvP by the Hall of Heroes, and people are frustrated with it as well. At least I am.

Brett Kuntz · May 25, 2005, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

Show me any one person that can grind for an hour and get 100k and your post would make at least a tiny bit of sense. Otherwise, and even if, you're still advocating the same system that you're so obviously in love with.

I meant as a guild, if a guild can't get that tiny amount of money in an hour, then you do not deserve a Guild Hall.

Lim-Dul · May 25, 2005, 09:53 AM // 09:53

LOL - people - I think your fears of the sigil price not being lowered by the newest update are all out of place.
GW economy, like any "WORLD economy" (no matter if virtual or real), works in the same way. If there are more sigils, their prices will drop. It may take a bit of time, but eventually they will. And there are more and more good guilds that will be able to take on the HoH. Remember - not all people were alpha/beta testers - for them GW is a very young game. As time will pass the prices will stabilise naturally. I mean - think of the fur prices before and after the update. Before the scarcity fix furs were sold for like 600gp - now they are sold for around 200gp (I sell them for that much - usually 150gp in larger trades). The very same thing will happen to sigils. I see their price dropping to around 30-40K which is a reasonable price for any bigger guild (Heck! Even the 8-person guild I'm in could afford that easily!).

And things like that:
http://www.rpgtraders.net/guildwars/...m?tradeid=7719
http://www.rpgtraders.net/guildwars/...m?tradeid=6433

will hopefully disappear. ;-)

By the way: PvP is like the most important aspect of GW. Why do you want to keep the ladder so elite? Eventually there should be LOTS of guilds in the ladder - n00b guilds, experienced guilds, good guilds, bad guilds - it's the only chance for GW to have a lasting appeal. I mean - if the same guilds will keep fighting the very same other guilds for months just because no one is willing to sell a sigil for a lower price, then GW will become boring.

Nevertheless: There are still ways to obtain a sigil. I treat the HoH as an ultimate guild-test. Win it, and you deserve your sigil, lose it and you most likely aren't ready for GvG. The 100K are of course not hard to get by - I could buy a sigil at any time if my guildmates made some contributions, but I still find the price not right.

The best solution for the sigil problem would be IMHO making the sigils unbuyable and unsellable but make them a reward for some difficult-as-hell PvE mission as well. Then the PvPs and the PvEs would both have their fun.

Odd Sock · May 25, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

- PvE guilds: you want a meeting ? do it in an EA or go to district 71 of Droknar's Forge. If you can't get 100k then you don't deserve one either.
- crappy PvP guilds: if you can't win the HoH then you don't deserve to be able to obtain a Sigil. Keep trying until you have a strategy that works
- good PvP guilds: nothing to say, good job and keep selling them Sigils

That's basically what it sums down to, ANet is once again favoring PvEers.

chalt2 · May 25, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stur

Don’t you just love the ( you suck, so what that you spent $50 dollars just like me, I pwn you, grovel at my feet and beg) argument?

I worry for the human race.

I, like you Stur am awed by the stunning examples of narrowmindedness and selfcentered opinion that inundates theese threads at times.

Quote:

- PvE guilds: you want a meeting ? do it in an EA or go to district 71 of Droknar's Forge. If you can't get 100k then you don't deserve one either.
- crappy PvP guilds: if you can't win the HoH then you don't deserve to be able to obtain a Sigil. Keep trying until you have a strategy that works
- good PvP guilds: nothing to say, good job and keep selling them Sigils.

Quote:

That's basically what it sums down to, ANet is once again favoring PvEers.

Quote:

example, Kara the annoying carebear at Guild-hall.

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*goes back to not playing grindwars the epic Dissapointment*.

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I'm not selling my sigils, I just want to collect them so they're out of the market.

Alzbeta · May 25, 2005, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by LathalDraugr

Well I can't speak for other players but completing a mission is not an accomplishment for me, it's fun. You know that nice feeling that doesn't come solely from being teh uber-leet pvper and stroking your ego while lording over the little plebs who don't spend half their time working on the best builds.

The problem here is you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of fun or entertainment, at least the kind which doesn't involve hyper-competitiveness. I know if I PvPed I'm never going to be at the top of the ladder but so what?

You took the words right out of my mouth. I enjoy playing PvE. The settings are beautiful, the combinations fun to experiment with, and (some of) the people enjoyable to talk to. I'll try PvP eventually, but for now I like enjoying the game at a less than breakneck pace.

I don't particularly appreciate the stigma that PvE-ers appear to be getting. We're not all bumbling idiots, incompetent beyond reason and unable to learn the game as quickly or as thoroughly as the almighty PvP gods. This is a game to me; not a lifestyle, and not a career. So let's chill out with the insults, ok?

Lasher Dragon · May 25, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

I am playing strictly PvE to fully experience the story and the world. Before I knew that you needed to PvE to unlock PvP skills, I had decided that I would go through this game, not rushing, just enjoying the sights and storylines and basically breathing the world in and getting the most out of all the work that went into the PvE aspect. I knew that if I jumped into PvP and got hooked that I would have a hard time convincing myself to go back to PvE. To me, PvP is the cherry on top, I am saving it for last, after I have fully enjoyed the rest of the delicious treat that Guild Wars is. When that time comes, I will be assembling a team of close friends and the promising people I have met in PvE and we will begin PvP in earnest.

Ensign: I may have misread, or misunderstood, but it seems to me anyway that you are trying to say that any guild that hasn't had good runs in PvP so far will never amount to much in PvP terms. I find that a laughable notion.

Lim-Dul · May 25, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

There are 2 aspects of GW - PvE and PvP - both require skill and patience. Why don't we just accept the fact, that they should be treated equally?

jdwoody · May 25, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

If a guild cannot collectively accumulate 100 platinum and buy a guild hall, they simply are not big enough, tight enough, far enough along in the game, or just plain not significant enough to deserve a guild hall.

Too bad arena.net didn't put that on the box when everyone bought the game, would have saved alot of people time and money...

I'm in a fun guild and we have a guild hall, but this thread is depressing. Who put you in charge to determine who is and who isn't significant enough to "deserve" a guild hall?

I hope they just start selling the things for 20k so everyone can enjoy GvG whether some pompous player feels they are deserving or not.

boranchistanger · May 25, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Any idea when these changes will be implemented? My guild has 60K saved up, should we wait for these changes for the price to go down and focus on improving ourselves or go for more money?

-Boran

Lasher Dragon · May 25, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by boranchistanger

Any idea when these changes will be implemented? My guild has 60K saved up, should we wait for these changes for the price to go down and focus on improving ourselves or go for more money?

-Boran

I've got 70k saved up myself, not counting any guildy help, and I am going to wait. Even though I feel the fix won't really fix anything, I am happy to wait and see. I've waited this long, I can wait some more. Plenty of things for me to do yet.

May 25, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lim-Dul

There are 2 aspects of GW - PvE and PvP - both require skill and patience. Why don't we just accept the fact, that they should be treated equally?

PvE doesnt require much skill past learning to cooperate

Raiddinn Beatdropper · May 25, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

As a player who bought a guild hall, 55k was not too much to pay for it, I didnt have anything else to do with the money at the end of the game anyway.

As a player whose interested in the overall game play, I would make these changes:
1) Sigils are customized for the leader of whatever team wins.
2) Sigils are not sold on traders
3) There are rewards for being good in GvG, top guild gets +10%, top 25 get +8%, top 50 get +6%, Top 100 get +4%, Top 200 get +2%, Thats permanent stats for PVP and PVE. Keep the +10% max in place though.

Oh and for all players in all guilds top 50, all locked items should be immediately unlocked, lvl 1, 2, and 3.

Were all these changes implemented, yes I would give back my vanity guild hall, not like the 55k would be a loss anyway, and I never farm $.

Tsunamii Starshine